Tag Archives: d20 modern

Pathfinder Modern Pledge Drive Leaves Me Ambivalent

Super Genius Games is taking patronage money to fund a Pathfinder-ized version of d20 Modern.  They’re only at $8k of their $70k goal with a month to go.

Am I signing up?  No.  I would probably buy such a thing if it came out, depending.  I love Pathfinder but was ambivalent about d20 Modern.  If it was a better version, sure!  But I don’t get how people are insisting on these patronage models.  In this case, I worry…

1.  What if the game is just bad?  There’s good names behind it but there’s always a chance.

2.  What if the game is never delivered?  Or is colossally late?  I am still a sad pre-buyer of Sinister Adventures’ Razor Coast, and if it wasn’t for Lou Agresta and unpaid volunteers chipping in, it would never see the light of day.  The RPG landscape is littered with collapsed projects.  My general policy is to NEVER preorder stuff unless it’s something like a major book from WotC or Paizo and I KNOW it’ll ship within about a month of when it’s supposed to.  I let my Logue-mania from his Paizo work get me carried away for Razor Coast; I won’t do that again, I’ve been reminded.

I do subscribe to some of the Paizo lines, just because they have an unbroken track record of delivering quality on time.  But no one else has that going for them.

In general, who pays for things sight unseen, before the thing is even developed?  No one.  It seems like a bit of an unrealistic business plan.  It’s one thing to just take some pre-orders with “if you order real early you get to playtest or give input or whatever” – sure, you get the $$ early and give some access, that’s fine.  But making it contingent – bad plan.

I know Open Design has been doing this – but I haven’t bought into any of those, either.  In fact, there’s a couple of them I’d like to buy now (like Kingdom of Ghouls) but I can’t because of their closed patronage model – that’s throwing money away, and generally makes me grumpy and unwilling to buy in to such schemes on a personal level.

I’m glad people are innovating business models and all, and if they are working for people (or if they think they are) more power to them…  But this is one consumer who’s not into it.

New d20 Modern Patronage Project

Last month I wrote about the state of modern d20 gaming and mentioned there might be a project in the works to update it for Pathfinder.  Well, the project is up and taking donations!  It’s being done as a patronage project by Super Genius Games, which consists of Owen K.C. Stephens, Stan!, and R. Hyrum Savage.  They’re calling it “P20 Modern.”

Follow along and see how it goes!  I liked d20 Modern OK and think it could be done a lot better, and it’s a great time to take it on.

The Past Of Modern d20 Gaming – And The Future?

Conversation among our gaming group recently turned to “Hey, was there ever another edition of d20 Modern?”  It got me thinking about  modern gaming and d20 modern-type gaming, especially as there may be some new breakthroughs coming on that front soon.  (Teaser!  I’ll spill the beans later in the article!)

Generic Modern d20 Games

I thought d20 Modern was just okay.  It was serviceable.  I didn’t like the stat-based classes, I think that’s lame.  And I didn’t like the way they halfheartedly supported it – it’s like it wasn’t a real product, just a spoiler product to steal sales from Shadowrun, etc.  In my mind it didn’t compare well; they proposed d20 Modern Dark Matter and Star*Drive, for example, which pretty much were better using the Alternity system. d20 Past and Future were just insulting in how light they were.  “You could use this to replace a number of other existing games!  We won’t provide enough content for you to do it out of the box, but look, you clearly could do it!”   Not sure what they were thinking.

Two other major d20-based games tried to fill the gap – True20 and Modern20.  True20 is Green Ronin’s generic, somewhat simplified d20 system; they use variants of it in Mutants & Masterminds and Blue Rose.  I like it better than d20 Modern, but am not wildly enthusiastic about it.  I don’t like the wound system, particularly.  And there’s not a lot of direct support for modern gaming; it’s meant to not be purely fantasy-tied so you *can* do it but it seems spread thin.  Every support book feels like it has to cover fantasy/modern/future/etc. which means you only get a little of each in the Companion, class books, etc.  That’s a poor marketing strategy because it means if I want material for a modern warrior, I have to buy a book with fantasy stuff in it.  I’m sure there are 10 or so people out there so in love with True20 they want to buy everything, but normal people would like books focused around information useful in a specific game they’re gonna run.

Modern20, from RPGObjects, is more specifically modern focused, which is nice.  It still goes with a largely stat-tied set of core classes, though it tries to add a little more “zazz” to them.  They have supplements for horror, martial arts, etc.  Seems serviceable.

Specific Genre Modern d20 Games

Mutants & Masterminds, from Green Ronin, is a great superheroes game.  I love it – well, the first edition.  I felt like the second edition overcomplicated things and decided the book should read more like a dictionary than a gamebook.  I understand some people like that kind of “definition centric” format but I say bah.   Anyway, I really like M&M 1e.  Beautiful books, you can build beautiful Marvelesque characters, and fun gameplay.  Criticisms – the way damage works can be a little problematic sometimes and I’ve learned over time that games that give the DM action points to use for villains suck.  Anyway, it’s the best d20 supers game hands down and IMO one of the best supers games in any system.  But it’s pretty much just for supers, which is great for that genre and not relevant for others.

Spycraft was another excellent game – in its first edition.  It’s weird that I also don’t like its second edition; it’s super overcomplicated and also goes for that descriptor stuff, must have been a fad at the time.  It was an espionage game, but because of that could work perfectly well for modern action, crime, investigation, military, etc.  If you’re looking to play a “subtle” genre, d20 probably isn’t the right thing to use anyway.  But if you want to be a faceman, soldier, wheelman, or fixer, it’s the game to use!  For most traditional modern genres, though, in my opinion Spycraft 1.0 is the shizznit.  (I didn’t like their uber gonzo “G.I. Joe on meth” setting,  Shadowforce Archer, but all the class guides are nice.)  They went the ‘real class’ direction instead of the ‘stat class’ – heck, Spycraft 2.0 minimized stats to the degree where they did away with ability checks!   You can find all the Spycraft 1.0 stuff easily at Half Price Books etc.  I don’t know what the heck Crafty is doing with the game line now that they have 2.0 – their supplements are bizarre (convert to d20 Modern!  Add fantasy!  Book after book of new guns!).

Haven: City of Violence, from LPJ Designs, also seems like a good bet.  I haven’t played it, but it seems to stay squarely in the modern action/crime/etc and not try to add in psychic mutant magic-using bugbears or other crap like that.  Seems to be Grand Theft Auto in Sin City directed by John Woo.  I’d like to give it a shot sometime.

What’s New?

Well, there may be a Pathfinder version of Modern in the works!  People asked Paizo to do it from time to time but they said “we’re busy with the core stuff.”  Recently, however, on the Paizo boards, some names you may recognize – Stan!, Owen K.C. Stephens, and Hyrum Savage, who have formed Super Genius Gamesare seriously talking about doing a Pathfinder Modern, possibly as a patronage project.  Although I’m leery of patronage projects, as the RPGverse is full of long promised and never delivered products (Nick Logue and Razor Coast, I’m looking at you), it’d be interesting to get a new version of d20 Modern with the learnin’ of the last 10 years baked in.

Here’s what such a game should look like IMO.

  • Real classes, not “stat based” classes.
  • Vitality and wound points, not pure hit points or a True20 weird DC thing.
  • A general modern corebook, but supplements organized along specific genre lines.

Some Bonus RPG.net Reviews